What does 'modding excellence' mean for modules?

[Invisig0th]

After searching the site and not finding anything addressing the issue, I have to wonder....what would you folks say are some of the hallmarks of "modding excellence" when it comes to building modules? Of course I realize that excellence is a subjective term, but it is clear that the modules you folks are showcasing with awards are broadly considered excellent work by the NWN community. So there are probably some solid general "best practices" that could be listed at this late point in NWN's software life cycle that would be very helpful to people attempting to build NWN modules of the highest possible quality. There will of course be some differences between different types of modules (multiplayer vs. SP, etc.) But I suspect at least some things would apply to all.

Are there any lists of these recommended excellent practices and methodologies for those of use interested in ensuring that our modules qualifies as "modding excellence"? I haven't found one, but perhaps I missed it. And if no such list exists, would there be any benefit to gathering a list of best practices specific to NWN modules and posting it, in a similar way as the module building guidelines for other projects like DMFI?

Here's one example of what might be considered a universal best practice useful to any builder: "Whenever you are using a linear plot line, always ensure that players are clearly informed about the next important task they must complete. The journal is a great tool for this, but other methods like NPC conversational reminders can also help to clearly indicate what the player's next goal is."

I chose the term "best practice" here because a best practice is just a guideline highlighting a common mistake or an advanced tip that people new to the technology might overlook. Best practices are not hard rules written in stone, but rather are merely good suggestions for ways to take something that is adequate and make it excellent -- which seems to be exactly the kind of work you are showcasing with your AME awards. I think that having a list of general guidelines for NWN modding excellence, even if it is just presented as a "list of things to think about when building modules", would be extremely useful to serious builders, allowing them to keep important things in mind from the very beginning of a project. I've seen several lists of this type targeted at beginners, but none that is this sort of list targeted at experienced developers wanting to take things to the next level.

Thoughts?

[Tybae]

That is a good idea, but I think The Builder's Project covered that in more detail than we really could here.  I have seen several threads on the Bio Boards pertaining to what you like/dislike in modules.  I really recommend most n00b builders read those threads before building.  I usually recommend moreso they read The Builder's Project's 2 manuals.  That's what I did.  I do admit, I'm still figuring things out in the toolset, so I'm not even close yet.  The like/dislike threads are very useful to those who don't know about The Builder's Project. 

I don't know if I really answered your question really.  Were you speaking on more terms of what we look for when nominating/voting for modules, or what is desireable in a module in general?  Most of the points would be one in the same.  However, there are several stances that I really have no opinion on and leave to the author's discretion, like definition of alignment, resting systems, magic systems, respawn/reload systems, etc. 

[Invisig0th]

(Which part of the Builder's Project is it that you are referring to? All I see there is a "Guide To Building", which is just a tutorial for new builders on how to build. Is there something else for advanced builders?)

It sounds like I wasn't clear about what I was asking. Let me use what I posted above as an example.

People new to module building learn how to add journal entries in order to inform the player of plot-related goals in the most basic manner. If they can do that, a player can probably figure out what is going on most of the time. There's nothing wrong with releasing a module with 100% of the plot information in journal entries. However, an advanced technique that can be used to create a much more polished or professional quality module is to augment journal entries with other user feedback options, such as NPC's reminding PC's about quests in conversations if the player happens to talk to them again before the quest is complete. This is not required, but this kind of user-friendly reminder is often is seen in the very best modules. So this is a good "best practice" suggestion for experienced builders who wish to increase the quality of their module and make it more "excellent".

Another "best practice" suggestion for excellent modules would be "Always provide a custom description for any plot-related inventory item to draw attention to the fact that this item is somehow special". Again, this is not a requirement, and many authors don't do it. But I'd be willing to bet that most of the modules who have received AME awards for excellence do this. Things like this are part of what seperates excellent modules from the standard fare.

Please note that these tips are applicable to any module. They are just general "good ideas" for any module at all where the author is striving to really create the best module he can. This has nothing to do with game type choices (choice of rest systems, etc.) or what personal preferences people may have about what they like or dislike in modules. I'm talking about things that are not disputed. For example, I doubt there are any NWN players that *hate* seeing custom descriptions for plot items. Some players will appreciate it and others won't, but it certainly doesn't hurt anything. It's just a professional quality touch that can only improve the experience.

I think that a list of general tips for experienced authors like I am describing here would be extremely useful to anyone striving to create "excellent" modules. Even exceptionally talented authors have occasional blind spots, so they might also benefit from reading a list of general tips and good all-around advice for improving module quality.

I had (perhaps incorrectly) assumed that a site called 'Academy for Modding Excellence' would have gathered some tips like this to help builders who are interested in making very high-quality, professional modules. Maybe I'm being misled by the term "academy", which to me indicates an institution for learning. Perhaps I have misunderstood the purpose of the group, and my question isn't really relevant to what you're doing here. My apologies if that is the case.

[Tybae]

When I referenced the guide to building, I meant that it constantly says you can do this (meaning the easy way), but it is more desireable to do this (being the more detail oriented way). 

Here at the Academy of Modding Excellence, we judge works nominate them for awards, test them, compare them, vote on them then give an award for excellence.  It's not really a medium to learn building, but I'm sure there are some here who could offer insight into building.  Think of it this way.  Oscar winners thank the Academy for their awards, but that academy is not a place to learn how to act, it's a group who gets together, reviews work done by the cinematic community and gives out awards, which is exactly what we do, but in the NWN world.   

We don't stop at modules either.  Custom Content is also recognized such as tilesets, placeables, scripts, etc.  The crowning glory, IMO, is Community Contribution which is an award that I really hold dear.  It recognizes the people behind the scenes who aren't in the lime light, so to speak.  I was thrilled when Axe Murderer won for Community Contribution.  His selfless help to the community has helped countless create their vision in building. 

Truth be told, if this were a place to teach people how to mod, then I would not belong here as I don't know enough to do that.  I can offer insight from a players point of view.  What I like to see, what I appreciate and all of your suggestions are ones that are very desireable. 

As far as going above and beyond for modules, we definately recognize the extrodinary effort, originality in modules and custom content.  I think that would be reflected by the winners this year and last year.  I didn't play a bad module of any of the nominees and there were modules that didn't make it to the finals as well.  Along with custom content. 

Other winners can exemplify excellence as well.  I think Lance Botelle is a fine example.  Soul Shaker is not everyone's cup of tea.  It's a very different gaming experience with a sort of other worldly feel to it.  I feel it was masterfully done.  While playing, I constantly said to myself "Wow, I've never seen that before".  Originality and ground breaking style/systems really is something that I think is not done often with a game that is this old. 

I hope this clears things up a little. 

With the people who are registered here, and there are a lot of them who are very reputable in the community, I would love to see a tip thread here.  This would be the appropriate forum to do so.  I think it should even be stickied, but I am not the appropriate person to start such a thread, IMO, just because I am not a builder who fully understands how to build, yet.  That being said, it would definately be beneficial to me. 

[kookoo]

The Academy of Modding Excellence is an awards institution that gives the Golden Dragon Awards for people in the modding community and that means modules, custom content, music and pretty much anything that is a "modification" to the original game.  It is basically a group of highly respected people (and Tybae   ) that have come together to recognize the NWN and NWN2 community and all the contributions that people have made.  The have spent tireless hours playing video games in a selfless sacrifice of their personal time to acknowledge the extraordinary efforts of the community builders.

There are other resources out there to help builders.  And most of the tips and suggestions you mentioned are also in numerous sticky threads in the Bioware forums for all to look at.

As far as the term "Academy"goes:  the "Academy" that gives the Oscar awards for acting and movie type stuff doesn't actually teach anyone to act either.  Just watch the Disney Channel sometime and you'll see what I mean.  

[BenWH]

I think it's definitely a good idea to encourage members and community alike to recommend their own standards, and I may try and put some of my own into words in the next fews days for what it's worth. I also find other sources like the Review guilds guidelines useful too.

There are really two reasons why we don't have a set of 'published, official' guidelines:
1) We actually did discuss this when we were founding the academy, but in the end, we decided that if we were prescriptive (or even guiding) in what makes a good module, then we set up precedents that may rule out creativity, or even encourage 'rules lawyering'. Instead what we try to do is make sure we have a representative cross-section of panel members from different types of builders to players. It's more subjective that way, but we felt this was a richer way of doing it. There are only some general guidleines (such as the Vision & Goals and the category guidelines) to help with this, for which panel members have more detailed versions.
2) Instead of putting up a list of 'do this' items, we wanted to post examples, and in the end, the best way to do this was to highlight the winners themselves.

That's not saying that there isn't a place for tips and tricks. There most certainly is (and I'd be interested to see some posted from those who read this thread). We've never done it officially though, for the reasons above, and remembering that our primary aim is to help the community (read: players) find the modules that suit them, whilst encouraging builders is a secondary (though important) criterion. Most of our set up is therefore deliberately slanted towards a 'user eye' point of view. I agree the term 'academy' can be a bit misleading on that though - I think that one won the naming poll because it's used by the Oscar guys for a similar setup.

Hope that helps. Now tme for some principles and guideline views. Any takers?

AME Chairman

[Andarian]

The Academy of Modding Excellence is an awards institution that gives the Golden Dragon Awards for people in the modding community and that means modules, custom content, music and pretty much anything that is a "modification" to the original game.

Actually, "mods" and "modding" in an NWN context refer primarily to modules and module development, including the development of supporting custom content. Although "mod" has been used for other games to refer to game "modifications," NWN and NWN2 are somewhat unique because of the game's module-building toolsets. The toolsets are designed around a particular "modding" architecture that emphasizes the development of standalone adventure modules, rather than the modification of existing adventures.

This is a point that became clearer to me from some discussions that I had on the NWN2 boards with Melirinda, who is an experienced Infinity Engine "modder." She ran into some of them in trying to develop Bishop's Romance, which is a "modification mod" for the NWN2 OC. While this turned out to be possible, it isn't something that the NWN toolsets were designed to make easy.

[kookoo]

The Academy of Modding Excellence is an awards institution that gives the Golden Dragon Awards for people in the modding community and that means modules, custom content, music and pretty much anything that is a "modification" to the original game.

Actually, "mods" and "modding" in an NWN context refer primarily to modules and module development, including the development of supporting custom content. Although "mod" has been used for other games to refer to game "modifications," NWN and NWN2 are somewhat unique because of the game's module-building toolsets. The toolsets are designed around a particular "modding" architecture that emphasizes the development of standalone adventure modules, rather than the modification of existing adventures.

This is a point that became clearer to me from some discussions that I had on the NWN2 boards with Melirinda, who is an experienced Infinity Engine "modder." She ran into some of them in trying to develop Bishop's Romance, which is a "modification mod" for the NWN2 OC. While this turned out to be possible, it isn't something that the NWN toolsets were designed to make easy.

That's actually really interesting.  I remember reading on the sorcerers.net boards that "mod" actually stood for "modification" when dealing with Baldur's Gate.  People would actually get offended when the term mod was used to refer to just modules.  That is a very good point about NWN &NWN2 being a different system and very true.

btw, it only took me 4 readthroughs to decifer what you said.    Especially when it got to modification mod. 

[Andarian]

...we decided that if we were prescriptive (or even guiding) in what makes a good module, then we set up precedents that may rule out creativity, or even encourage 'rules lawyering'. Instead what we try to do is make sure we have a representative cross-section of panel members from different types of builders to players.

That's pretty much the idea. The Academy's rules and procedures are designed to encourage members to exercise personal judgement as much as possible, and that includes personal judgement about the most important criteria for content evaluation. We don't always agree on those points, and consequently we don't always agree on nominations and on voting. But experience and judgement are what we look for in members, and exactly what we want them exercise and share. We try to discuss the reasons for our votes, and to benefit from each other's unique thinking and perspectives. I agree with Ben that the result of that is a richer and more comprehensive set of evaluations than would be possible than if we leaned more toward ticking off items on a "good modding" checklist.

As Ben emphasized, that's not to say that there aren't solid module design principles that could be written up and stated as useful guidelines, especially for beginners. Invisigoth mentioned several that I keep firmly and consciously in mind when I build and evaluate modules -- such as the integrated use of journal entries, item and placeable descriptions, map pins, and conversation hints to steer players toward what they need to do to advance the plot in a linear or story-based module. There was one otherwise good NWN2 nomination, in fact, that narrowly missed making it into the finals, and largely on exactly the criteria you described.

Hope that helps. Now tme for some principles and guideline views. Any takers?

AME Chairman

Sure, I'll bite at my thoughts on a few, quickly:

1) Good use of music to set a mood. I'm not necessarily talking about composing music, here, but about effectively selecting music for scenes and areas. I took days when building Sanctum 2, for example, outlining my plans for areas and story developments within them, downloading music tracks, and then systematically going through them to find matches that worked well to set an appropriate mood.

2) Good character development. Don't build henchmen, build companions -- not just meat-shields, but characters with personalities. This is especially important for story-based modules (Adventure and RPG), but it really helps to make even a H&S module more interesting as well.

3) Don't overuse the companion global dialogue file. Companions shouldn't only provide information when you ask them; they should interject it when it's needed or important to the plot. Use conversations with companions to provide plot-guiding information, in addition to journal entries, map pins, etc.

That's all I have time for now -- I'll try to think of some more later.

[Tybae]

btw, it only took me 4 readthroughs to decifer what you said.    Especially when it got to modification mod. 

Ah, how cute.  Kookoo is learning.   

It's very technical when modifying the modules modifications, it's further useful to mod the mod's modifications while at the same time, modifying the mod's mod. 

[Tybae]

That's pretty much the idea. The Academy's rules and procedures are designed to encourage members to exercise personal judgement as much as possible, and that includes personal judgement about the most important criteria for content evaluation. We don't always agree on those points, and consequently we don't always agree on nominations and on voting. But experience and judgement are what we look for in members, and exactly what we want them exercise and share. We try to discuss the reasons for our votes, and to benefit from each other's unique thinking and perspectives. I agree with Ben that the result of that is a richer and more comprehensive set of evaluations than would be possible than if we leaned more toward ticking off items on a "good modding" checklist.

Well said Andarian.  We often hold debates about nominations, quality, etc.  It's all in the eye of the beholder.  What I really don't want is for builders to build with winning a GDA in mind.  The fear is if we post guidelines, people are going to stick to them just to win a GDA.  It's always best to create work that you enjoy that holds your passions, helps you tell a story, etc.  Build something you're pleased with and the rest will follow.  If we all stuck to guidelines, we wouldn't have the diverse community we have today.  The excitement for me is trying new things, going through a new story and seeing an author's vision in his work.  That's what I like. 

Even my favorite authors cover a multitude of different styles, even ones that are opposite of one another.  Same thing with modules.  I like a multitude of modules from the extreme hack & slash to no combat at all.  That said, I don't think it would even be possible for all of the members to agree on any set guidelines.  Methinks that's a good thing. 

[Andarian]

It's very technical when modifying the modules modifications, it's further useful to mod the mod's modifications while at the same time, modifying the mod's mod. 

You can't modify a mod's modifications while modifying the mod's mod. You have to make a modified module to contain the modified modification to the mod's modified mod. If you try to make a non-module mod modification to the mod's modified mod, it won't work.

*Steps back to watch Tybae's head explode*

[Tybae]

It's very technical when modifying the modules modifications, it's further useful to mod the mod's modifications while at the same time, modifying the mod's mod. 

You can't modify a mod's modifications while modifying the mod's mod. You have to make a modified module to contain the modified modification to the mod's modified mod. If you try to make a non-module mod modification to the module's modified mod, it won't work.

*Steps back to watch Tybae's head explode*

ROFL   I think it's Kookoo's head that's going to explode. 

[kookoo]

It's very technical when modifying the modules modifications, it's further useful to mod the mod's modifications while at the same time, modifying the mod's mod. 

You can't modify a mod's modifications while modifying the mod's mod. You have to make a modified module to contain the modified modification to the mod's modified mod. If you try to make a non-module mod modification to the module's modified mod, it won't work.

*Steps back to watch Tybae's head explode*

ROFL   I think it's Kookoo's head that's going to explode. 

Yup.  Now you've gone and done it.  *boom*  There it goes!  *caution, contents of this post may contain head exploding violence.*

[Andarian]

I had (perhaps incorrectly) assumed that a site called 'Academy for Modding Excellence' would have gathered some tips like this to help builders who are interested in making very high-quality, professional modules. Maybe I'm being misled by the term "academy", which to me indicates an institution for learning. Perhaps I have misunderstood the purpose of the group, and my question isn't really relevant to what you're doing here. My apologies if that is the case.

As Ben said, the idea behind the name was principally inspired by the "Academy for Motion Pictures" and their awards for excellence in filmmaking. In line with that, the Academy's main purpose is to recognize modding excellence by giving awards. But what you suggest wouldn't be a bad idea for a secondary purpose to the AME. Perhaps the forums here could become an area for builders and players to discuss good modding practices. It might even be an interesting idea to start a separate forum to encourage those discussions.